Overview and Directions: We discussed Ibsen's play A Doll House and viewed the end of Act III. Nora leaving Torvald is famously called, "The door slam heard around the world." At the time, the powers that be forced Ibsen's hand, and he reluctantly changed the ending in order to avoid the outright ban on his play. Below, view the original ending and read the alternate ending. How does this new ending make you feel? How does it alter Ibsen's message and intent? Ibsen wrote Ghosts as rebuttal to this ending and the public 's reaction. What can we expect to see in Ghosts? Explore. I look forward to your responses.
Original Ending of A Doll House
Alternate Ending of A Doll House
NORA. ... Where we could make a real marriage out of our lives together. Goodbye. [Begins to go.]
HELMER. Go then! [Seizes her arm.] But first you shall see your children for the last time!
NORA. Let me go! I will not see them! I cannot!
HELMER [draws her over to the door, left]. You shall see them. [Opens the door and says softly.] Look, there they are asleep, peaceful and carefree. Tomorrow, when they wake up and call for their mother, they will be - motherless.
NORA [trembling]. Motherless...!
HELMER. As you once were.
NORA. Motherless! [Struggles with herself, lets her travelling bag fall, and says.] Oh, this is a sin against myself, but I cannot leave them. [Half sinks down by the door.]
HELMER [joyfully, but softly]. Nora!
[The curtain falls.]
In the ending that we didn't see, Torvald got Nora to stay by reminding her to bid the kids farewell. In the ending that we did see, Nora managed to get away. I don't think she ever really loved him.
ReplyDeleteTorvald only married Nora because he had an outrageous one-way crush on her.
Deletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMxTFqPET5I
DeleteAnd she wasn't very resistant until now.
DeleteThe Phantom of the opera is frequently criticized for behaving similarly towards Christine Daae.
DeleteI think Nora changed into something with a narrower collar so Torvald couldn't unwrap anything while she was telling him this.
DeleteThat first dress was so loose, I nearly averted my eyes.
DeleteAfter seeing the ending of "A Doll House", the views of Ibsen on his society was quite clear to the point. He believed that the people that surrounded him were very fake and that their own identity has been stripped to fit society's identity. The ending of the movie sums up his themes really well leaving the audience to empathize with the characters naturally. However due to many people criticizing his movie that criticized them, he decided to alter the ending to make his audience happy once again. This ending is not a good fit to his themes and ends the play in a very unpleasant way. The idea of making your own path and finding your own identity was simply stopped because Nora must serve her duty as a mother. This goes against what Ibsen really wanted to say showing how even after thinking about finding one's own identity, society's pressure will still triumph over your own identity. Ibsen's next play "Ghosts" is supposed to be about showing society the consequences of not finding one's own identity. I believe that the play will show society how one would end up if they continued to condone to society's expectations. I would also not be surprised if there were real life examples of the consequences of following society blindly. Since society at that time acted the same way in which Ibsen writes his plays on.
ReplyDeleteThe alternate ending is stupid yet meaningful. It was stupid because Nora had to continue to spend the rest of her life with Helmer. Also because Helmer had control of her again just like a doll wife. It is meaningful because Nora was a good mother because she did not abandon her children. This alters Ibsen's message of freedom and identity. Nora in the new ending decided to give up finding herself and being free as a woman to take care of her kids. Because of this, I believe that in Ghost's the kids will be upset with their father because of the control that he has on them. It will be a rebuttal against the alternate ending of the Doll House. The mother/wife might get frustrated and decide to leave in order to be free. The children might follow their mother to get away from their father.
ReplyDeleteThe original version of Ibsen’s play of “A Doll’s House” was directly aimed at the current society and its norms. This is why I do not like the alternative ending of the play, it completely erases Ibsen’s viewpoint and message. The new ending makes me angry at the government of the time. They completely ignored the right to freedom of speech that countries have now granted in our day. Something like this would not be allowed in the United States it would be brought to court as denying Ibsen his first amendment right. Another reason I don’t like the alternate ending is that it makes the play almost irrelevant. Without the controversy that it brings, it is really just another play of the time period that just agrees with society. “A Doll’s House” was supposed to comment on how the role of women in society was wrong and I think that it would have encouraged many women of the time period to rethink the current normal that just has them watch the kids and stay in the house as Nora does in the substitute ending.
ReplyDeleteSince “Ghosts” is a rebuttal to the new ending in “A Doll’s House” and the people's reaction to it we can only expect it to be more controversial in its text. Ibsen does not seem like the type that when the government tells him he is being to radical in his text that he would just comply and not write like that anymore. I expect “Ghosts” to tackle not only the topic of the role of women in society but also other events that were going on in the time period.
Obviously it's a "cop out" ending, but honestly I feel that this ending shows that Nora should leave Torvald even more. In this edition it says that “ HELMER. Go then! [Seizes her arm.] But first you shall see your children for the last time! NORA. Let me go! I will not see them! I cannot!” this is just showing how abusive Torvald is. Nora is trying to leave so then Torvald grabs her and doesn't let her leave. So I find it weird how society was upset with the first ending when Nora leaves, but when Nora’s husband grabs her and doesn't let her leave, no one in society complained? I don't feel that anyone should complain about any ending that a writer writes, because it is their art and art should question anything, but I find it funny how no one questions the ending that society demanded from Ibsen.
ReplyDeleteI think the movie’s ending would have been unsettling for Ibsen’s audience to view. In order to make “A Doll House” exist at all, Ibsen was forced to change the more extreme ending to something that was not so controversial to societal norms. A more comfortable closing scene for society to view was a more unsettling and frustrating scene for me to view. The message he intended to send was not as strongly presented with the written ending. Nora found her voice and was finally courageous enough to take a stand, but her success was rather undermined in staying “for the children”, and ultimately remaining in the same position. Nora said herself that she must bring up herself prior to being fit to bring up her children. How would she be able to “bring up herself” while still being the “Doll Wife” of Helmer. Seeing how frustrated I am that Ibsen was forced to suppress his viewpoints, I can only imagine how irritating it had been for Ibsen himself. I think “Ghost” will be used almost as revenge. It is intended to be even more controversial. It will reveal what society has to lose in allowing societal norms to continue. Given what I have heard about the reactions to “Ghost” during the time it was written, it should be interesting.
ReplyDeleteThe idea behind Ghosts was probably, "Controversy? I'll show you controversy." Ibsen definitely wrote that to get revenge on those who didn't take A Doll's House too well.
DeleteIbsen’s “A Doll House” illustrates clearly his views on society. The characters were exaggerated so much so that the common man would clearly recognize how fake his their identities are. These characters reflect the problems with families and society. The ending of the movie is the climax to Ibsen’s argument. People aren’t genuine and that they need to think as individuals because what would happen to society if everyone thought the same? The majority isn’t right and this notion as well as his views on women in families caused him to create an alternate ending. The new ending to his play is only a rebuttal to his views. Nora realizes her mistake and stays with Helmer because of her role as a mother. This is exactly the opposite of what Ibsen was trying to prove in his original work. The theme of individuality, identity, and freedom is reduced to nothing. If “Ghosts” is a rebuttal to this ending, I hope to see even more exaggerated character that portrays society as absurd.
ReplyDeleteThe original ending of "A Doll House" was a beautifully composed depiction of the stereotypical family at the time. The fact that Nora leaves creates a wonderful contradiction to societal norms at the time. Family life at the time was very simple and the mother and father had clear roles that they were to carry out in every household. Ibsens original ending is a peice of art due to the fact that it goes against what people thought was going to happen, making it wonderful. In history, art has always been about pushing the limits on what is expected from people. Astound artists like Picasso and musicians like Queen, for example, focused on straying from the crowd at the time and creating something which was unique to them. I believe that Ibsen achieved this by the reaction he received from the original ending. Just because of the fact that people were demanding he change the ending shows that he successfully strayed away from the crowd which is one of the most important things in society. His altered ending, felt to me as he was forced into creating something that wasn't his, in that he gave in to the criticism and changed the entire point of the play. With Nora staying in the family the story manages to travel in a big circle and is no longer a piece about individuality and loss and rather a play about the everyday hardships of marital issues. I did not enjoy the alternate ending what so ever and hope to see Ibsen stick to his art in his play "Ghosts".
ReplyDeleteIbsen’s original ending was a poignant and impactful way to close a play focused on challenging the social rules and structures of the time period. Nora deciding to leave demonstrated the importance of being a human being first, and sent the message that everyone first has a duty to themselves, and that all people have the right to be able to bring themselves up and make their own choices. The alternate ending undermines this message in a way, actually reinforcing the notion that a woman’s primary responsibility is to be a wife and mother. This sort of cheapens the message and makes the entire work less impactful than it could have been. The alternate ending also makes me feel for Nora even more, as she will be trapped in an unhappy marriage with a husband who clearly does not respect her. From what we read of the alternate ending, it also seems that that Torvald has not really learned his lesson, and will probably continue to mistreat Nora. As Ghosts is a rebuttal to the alternate ending, I expect that the children brought up in a similar way, by a childlike mother and abusive father, will end up growing into unpleasant adults, who would have had a confusing and somewhat unhappy childhood, brought up by unhappy parents who dislike each other, and are unhappy in their home and their marriage.
ReplyDeleteIn a Dolls house, Ibsen used his characters to make a point about the roles that people are put into in society. The characters all happily play their roles to the best of their ability, until the letter changes things. Nora expects Torvald to be willing to take the fall for her, and when he doesn't she begins to question the way she thinks about things. If she doesn't understand her husband, what does she understand? This causes her to question her place in society, and her obligations to others and herself. Through her questioning, Ibsen is making the statement that by forcing people into their societal roles, and expecting them to go through life blindly doing what they're told, they cease to be people, and become dolls. When Nora leaves, she tries to become a free thinking person, making the statement that it's possible to question and go against society. By changing the ending, the message becomes that although societal roles may cause you to abandon all sense of self, they're still for the better. It completely changes the play, and it enforces the idea that a woman's priority should be as a mother and a wife, even if it's not what's right for her. In ghosts I think we'll see the impact that this could have on a woman, and how being forced to be a mother and a wife isn't going to make a good wife or mother. I think we'll also see ether negative affect on the child and what they might expect from themself or others. Maybe they'll rebel more against society after seeing the impact on their family, or they'll believe that the way they were raised was right because they were given no other perspective.
ReplyDelete-Solace L
The new ending of a dollhouse is obviously different from the original. In the new one, Helmer is able to convince Nora to stay due to the fact that if she leaves then her kids will be motherless. That idea affects Nora greatly as she stays when being told that. This shows how the public wanted the ladies to act in public during those times. They considered the ladies to have less power than men and that they couldn’t do as much for themselves politically as men could. Overall you can see evidence of the society in the new ending of a dollhouse and now we see why Ibsen wanted to move on to ghosts once thereafter.
ReplyDeleteI believe the alternate ending of A Doll House by Henrik Ibsen was the only way to avoid the play being banned. The ending being changed really ruins the whole idea, and point he was trying to make in his play. By making Nora stay it completely changes Ibsens personally thoughts. He wanted to challenge societal norms and show a very realistic household to make more people try to understand. This shows us how Ghosts is going to be even more controversial, and very extreme. Ibsen is going to to exaggerate what people believe is right and try to show them how they could be wrong.
ReplyDeleteChristine R
ReplyDeleteI understand how Ibsen would change the ending of the play but that completed defeated the purpose of the play to begin with. I understand how Ibsen would change the ending to please the public but then I think he’s being a hypocrite for against his own beliefs despite doing so in his other plays before A Doll House. But then again, he did it out of his own will because he still wanted his viewers to watch it again. As a women, especially in Norway, it was a mother’s job to take care of the kids while also being obedient to their husbands and sometimes it doesn’t go that way. So I’m glad that he took that risk when he first showed the original ending to the public because it became this unexpected reality check that everybody needed, especially those in difficult family situations like Nora and Torvald’s who may have been able to relate to their situation. I guess whether he had the alternate ending or not, he was writing Ghosts which is his response to A Doll House, so I’m very excited to read more of Ghosts and see how the dynamics of the families alter in the play.
In the alternate ending of “A Doll House” Nora stays with her family because she doesn’t want to leave her children even though she wants to leave Torvald. When Torvald reminds her that she’ll be leaving her children behind she exclaims, “Motherless! [Struggles with herself, lets her traveling bag fall, and says.] Oh, this is a sin against myself, but I cannot leave them. [Half sinks down by the door.]” I feel that even though Ibsen had to change the ending he was still able to make fun of social norms by portraying Torvald as an evil that was holding Nora against her true will through their children. For all who knew about the previous ending Ibsen’s message became stronger through its suppression. By forcing him to change it they showed that he had struck some truth that they could not bear. In ghosts, I expect him to directly challenge what they did with A Doll House and I wonder what they did about it at the time.
ReplyDeleteThe new ending of this play really does feel somewhat forced. The shortness and the sudden change in heart from Nora feels extremely unrealistic. The short and rather abrupt ending of A Doll House shows a very unnatural and sudden change in heart from Nora. For me, this change in heart is unrealistic because when she decides to leave, I would think that she already knows that she is leaving her children with only the father. So for me, the ending really feels like Ibsen was very reluctant to change this part and perhaps did it in a poor fashion to send a message to the readers. This change itself did seem to change Ibsen’s message slightly. The entire point of the play seemed to be that Nora was going to walk away. By changing the ending this dramatically, I think it really defeats the purpose of the play and the message it was meant to send. At the same time, I think the fact that Ibsen changed the end in a really poor way does also send a message to the readers that suggests that it was not his idea to end the play in this fashion. Since the message is then forced to be relayed in Ghosts, I think we will see an example of the female having power and influence in the play.
ReplyDeleteIn the alternate ending of “A Doll House” Nora is forced to stay with her family because she couldn’t bear to leave her children. Although Nora wants to leave her dreadful marriage with Torvald she realizes that she can’t just leave her children motherless. When Torvald points out this fact she says, “Motherless! [Struggles with herself, lets her traveling bag fall, and says.] Oh, this is a sin against myself, but I cannot leave them. [Half sinks down by the door.]” Ibsen makes fun of society in this alternate ending by portraying the fact that Nora can’t be herself and has to follow the rules. Ibsen repeatedly shows that people take into consideration what other people think is right rather than do what they personally think is right. Nora wants to leave Torvald for herself but feels like everyone will look down on her.
ReplyDeleteThe revamped and changed ending to "A Doll House" was very forced and awkward. In the original version she leaves Torvald because he does not understand her, and also that she does not understand him. She is unsure about everything and questions all that she knows. Nora leaving signifies that she wants to start a new life, so that she can re-discover herself, and find out who she really is, and changing the ending defeats the purpose of this play. In the new ending Nora stays because she does not want to leave her children motherless. This is exactly the opposite that Ibsen is trying to say, when during the whole play is about individuality and self freedom. I think that ghosts is going to play off this story, and give a rebuttal to a bizarre situation for if Nora did stay
ReplyDeleteBryant